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Interview with Emma-Leigh Part 2
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Interview with Emma Leigh Part 2
By Jamie Hale
When working with athletes do you prefer working with a particular type of athlete?
Motivated ones!!! *grin* Honestly though – there is nothing more rewarding that working with someone who is passionate about what they do and someone who is willing to push themselves and put in the hard work to get what they want…
In general – Each and every person has something unique to tackle. But I LOVE people who question and push. ‘Why’ am I doing this? What are we trying to do? Those who want to learn, experiment and to ‘take those *calculated* risks’ that help to push them.
I enjoy getting people results and watching as their attitudes change. Seeing as they refocus, redirect and take charge of their choices and lives in general….. It is very interesting that when people realize that they can push themselves into those uncomfy places and still ‘be ok’, and that they are not simply ‘at the will’ of [enter chosen external control element here] they often gain a lot of self-confidence and perspective. They discover that they are capable of more than they think, and they don’t let themselves get away with so much slacking! They are stronger/ tougher and tend to ‘expand’ these positives to other areas of their life – work/ home/ relationships to becoming more proactive/ productive in general…
With my ED-ers? Watching them regain perspective, rebuild their bodies and gain an entirely new perspective on their approach to food is really fulfilling. Taking a person and seeing them ‘turned around’…. And in the same vein, I also really enjoy working with people who, although not ‘ED’, come to me with a completely unrealistic ‘overly controlling’ and unhappy approach to diet/ fitness only to watch as they regain perspective and realize that they CAN eat cake without turning into the Pillsbury Dough Boy!
In a recent conversation we had you mentioned you were a big believer in "keeping it real". What does that mean?
Ok…. This is one of my pet peeves with the industry - The selling of ‘pseudoscience’ / ‘quick fix’ / ‘one size fits all’ /mindless pimping of programs/ supplements crap that goes on… And extending from this - the overly restrictive, overly inclusive, unrealistic, complex ‘rules’ people (so called ‘guru’s’) set up in relation to ‘getting shredded’ / ‘losing weight’/ ‘gaining muscle’ which confuses and fools many, makes the lives of countless others far more miserable and complicated than they need to be, and at its worst, can get some people into situations that can be downright dangerous (enter inexperienced ‘new off the rack/ learnt over the internet’ PT teach an overweight, unfit 45 yr old female to ‘clean and press’ in order to ‘create metabolic demand’)!
Everyone wants to have ‘the solution’. The truth? There often IS no ‘golden ratio’, no ‘fix it powder’ and no ‘ideal way’ to get an individual results. How any one person should eat and train (to get and maintain results) is going to be something unique to them. Each person has their own life. They have different circumstances, they are of different ages and gender, they have different training histories, responses to volume/intensity, and recovery requirements. They will have a different mental outlooks and ‘real world commitment’. Different energy outputs, body fat levels, genes, physiological status and countless other things. So to then give two people the same x = y formula for diet/ training doesn’t work. Yet most people find these bulk supplied ‘cool programs’, join up (and then tell as many people as possible that they should do the same) expecting to get the results that ‘this person did’ or ‘that person did’!
And I tend to see two types of people who get confused/ damaged by this (and in this I talking mostly about the non-professional /non-athlete person with aesthetic goals – it gets more complicated once you want to get ‘shredded’):
1. The ‘All’ (Aka – those who ‘Try to be Perfect’ and who shouldn’t)
2. The ‘Nothing’s’ (Aka – those who SAY they are perfect, and who AREN’T!!)
So…. Let’s start with the ‘All’s’: These are the people who think they need to be ‘calorie controlled, clean eating, cardio consumed, you have to do it this way only’ types. They follow the ‘pro-protocol workouts’, include the latest ‘supplement’, follow the latest ‘diet’. They have a set of almost self-flagellating restrictions on every aspect to do with diet/training- ‘no dairy’, ‘no fruit’, ‘no carbs after 3pm’, ‘no yolks/red meat’, ‘no sugar’, ‘no processed foods’, ‘no sodium’, ‘regular meals’, ‘low glycaemic’. They ‘only low intensity fasted cardio’ (but drink lots and lots of BCAAs), only ‘train high rep’, only ‘train one body part once a week’ and ‘never have a day off’. They never ‘step off’ thinking that ‘this is the key to getting results’.
And they do this why? Often it is for no other reason than ‘the bigger guy/ my trainer said so’ or ‘this person on that forum does it’ or because they have a fear of ‘what happens if I don’t’ (loss of control) or because they feel they are not ‘dedicated’ unless they ‘suffer’. A lot of people also try to copy ‘the most shredded person’ – not realizing that said shredded person is only such because they are pro-card holding, sponsored, and endowed with good genes (and sometimes ‘chemically assisted’). Trying to ‘transpose’ the training/ supplement/ diet routine of these people onto other people (especially if you happen to be a ‘first timer mum of 4 kids’) is about as useful as trying to teach a first grader quantum physics.
I especially see this happen in the female bbing/fitness world. Competitors are put through preparations from hell. Their ‘trainers’ (and I use the term loosely) do ‘what they think they need to do’. They become the ‘drill sergeants’ who almost gain pleasure out of inducing the most suffering they can… They do ridiculous levels of high intensity and long duration (all fasted) cardio. High volume glycogen dependent 5-day-a-week ‘bodybuilding’ training sessions, strict no carb/ no sugar/ no treat meals/ ‘no exceptions’ diets and highly complex (and expensive) ‘supplement routines’…. These poor women then step off stage exhausted only to get sick, fall face first into a plate of cheesecake, and resurface 2 months later 30# heavier and with an eating disorder to boot.
Am I denying that sacrifice needs to be made in order to get shredded? No. You have to ‘give up’ some things and getting ‘stage lean’ is, at times, miserable. But it should leave you mentally ‘intact’ such that you can still live your life and enjoy the results and it should NOT be based purely on the ‘we have always done it this way’ approach.
Also – for those who WANT to experiment with funky diets/ supplements, or be ‘super-controlled’ with their diets, or even follow some ‘weird and wonderful’ then I am not saying you shouldn’t!! And I am also not denying that you CAN get results. But I am simply making the point that you CAN get results doing it MANY ways… Go to respectable sources, and learn about what is REALLY going on with your body - So you don’t get fooled into thinking that ‘what is traditional’ or ‘what this person said’ or ‘how you have done it before’ is the ‘only way’.
Anyway….. What about these ‘nothings’? And in these I mean everyone out there who is ‘stuck’ not changing - but looking for the ‘secret answer’ that will explain their lack of progress the one that will get them results without effort….
There are so, so many people who, because they are so ‘disappointed’ latch onto so many number of ‘pseudoscience’ reasons to look for answers. I moderate on a few bodybuilding boards and I often cringe when I see some of the advice given… People who have lost the forest for the trees - stuck on the teeny, tiny details that, in the grand scheme of things, are going to be insignificant in helping weight loss… The typical questions > ‘I eat xyz calories…. Why can’t I lose weight’….? [the answer – eat ‘clean foods only’]…. ‘If I swap from quick oats to whole oats will that help’…? [of course – these are ‘lower GI’]…. ‘Should I cut out the sugar and creamer in my coffee’…? [YES! Sugar is bad]…. ‘Should I have only natural Peanut butter… What about Jif’? [Stick to natural – the transfats in processed will stop you from getting result]
Another not uncommon scenario is a 200-250 odd pound, 5’ nothing person who comes on to ask: ‘I eat clean - x cals a day/ x meals/ x macronutrients. I do x mins cardio each morning. I weight train x times a week. Does anyone have advice…..’
This usual answers: ‘You are not eating frequently enough’… ‘You are in starvation mode’... ‘Eat more protein – at least 1.5 x your weight’…. ‘cut out carbs at night time….’ ‘have breakfast to kick starts your metabolism’…. ‘Don’t do so much cardio….’
*sigh* As nice as the ‘you need to eat more’ concept is for most a stall in weight loss is not about ‘starvation mode’. For the average overweight a lack of results is often the fact that they are doing seated work for 8-10 hrs a day + watching telly for another 4 at night. And they consume, on average, more calories than this life needs. Am I denying that for SOME people these things can play a role in helping to get shredded? No. And ‘metabolic stall’ IS important as people get lean or if they have dieted HARD CORE and even more so if they do this while doing LOTS of cardio (especially seen in females). But there is needs to be a distinction made between ‘200# ripped 20 yr old male elite bb-er’ and ‘200# sedentary 40 yr old computer workers’. And THIS is what a lot of those who think in terms of ‘pseudoscience’ /‘one size fixes’ neglect to see or understand.
And am I saying the above will not help? No. They can. BUT it is not for the reasons thought. For example - it might help because if you stop ‘night carbs’ you stop ‘night time snacks’ (therefore decreasing calories). If you add breakfast, you often decrease mid afternoon ‘snacks’ (and therefore decrease calories), if you add ‘high protein, frequent and portioned meals’ you control hunger, and, you guessed it - control calories. Hey presto, you get results. These things work – but people should understand WHY so they are not misled.
I guess after all that rambling what am I trying to day? The vast majority of people don’t need a highly complex, supplement pimping, ‘bodybuilding’ type diet and training program. They don’t NEED to get caught up in the details. And they shouldn’t let all those so-called ‘experts’ pull the wool over their eyes and the money out of their pockets. Most people need a bit of ‘common sense’, and something that gets them to eat less calories/ burn more calories and maintain this pattern while they get on with the rest of their life…. And instead of looking for ‘the magic answer’ it may just be a case of said ‘dieter’ being a little more PATIENT… And probably a lot more ‘honest’ about their calorie intake and just how hard they are really working/ pushing...
What is your favorite nutrition book?
Hmmmm…. Tough question… This really depends on the target audience. For your bodybuilder / fitness/ weight loss things I liked/like:
- Body Opus by Dan Duchaine is a classic. It is on my ‘must have’ list for all those interested in this area
- Lyle McDonald’s Books are gold. They give good, solid advice in enough detail for the reader to understand the ‘what and why’ of what he does
- Leigh Peele has good information in ‘Fat Loss Troubleshooter’ for those who want a simple, effective outline for dieting
- Alan Aragon’s monthly reviews are excellent, and his book ‘Girth Control’ helps to present the more ‘science-y’ details
- Your own book ‘Protein Essentials’ was great reading (for those who want the details on ‘all things protein’)
For those with a more ‘clinical’ based direction:
- ‘Clinical Sports Nutrition’ by Burke et al. [See HERE]
- ‘Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism’ by Gropper [HERE]
- ‘Biochemical, Physiological & Molecular Aspects of Human Nutrition’ by Stipanok [see HERE]
- And also not ‘technically’ nutrition, but worthwhile addition to my list: ‘Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance’ by McArdle is also excellent [see HERE]
What is your favorite exercise book?
Once again – to split it into a few areas… For those who want basic info:
- For those ‘weight training but not needing detailed routines’ you can’t go wrong with either ‘Starting strength’ or ‘Practical Programming’ by Rippetoe. I like the simple/ easy to read approach (a KISS type way of things).
- For more detail I liked the NSCA’s publication ‘Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning’ by Baechle [HERE] (recently put out in the third edition). Good details and enough for most who want/ need more specific programs.
- Not sure if it qualifies but Dan John ‘From the Ground Up’ although short (and more specific to oly lifts) instills a LOT of good principles and runs in line with a lot of my thinking: Keep it Simple (don’t get fooled); Make it a Habit; Know what you want; Keep the Passion. I think they are pretty good things to live by…. And they transcend into other areas too.
And although not *really* in this category –
- The Biophysical Foundations of Human Movement by Abernethy et al.
- ‘Clinical Sports Medicine’ by Burkner and Khan [an essential for all those who want to know ‘what is what’ when it comes to sports injury].
When do you expect your new website to be complete?
This I will be able to tell you in about a week! I have the next interview with my web designer person next week (if there is one thing I am not – it is a web designer… So it is a matter of setting things up the ‘right way’)! We are actually looking into altering a few other things as well (image overhaul) so that is going to be interesting…
What are your primary current research interests? Do you have any up and coming projects you would like to mention?
At the moment in regards to research I am addressing two areas:
1. Nutrient partitioning and the role different compounds/ substances have in assisting the hormonal responses to food ingestion, and the directing of nutrients intramuscularly (rather than into butt cheeks)! This is especially in relation to peri-workout nutrition, and when combined with/ in response to different training protocols…. I have been getting some pretty interesting results from my ‘willing guinea pigs’ (myself included) in this too….
2. Metabolic Rates – what is the ‘driver’ and how can we ‘uncouple’ things such that we run faster than required?
A client of mine motivated this. This young woman, despite eating well and not doing much in the way of exercise, lost 15 odd kg (about 33 # to those Americans out there) over about 1 year. Hormone profile including thyroid - all normal. Full body MRI – nothing of note. They even screened tumor markers/ inflammatory (to see if she was simply in a state of neoplastic associated cachexia or TB or sarcoidosis or some weird and wonderful)… Nadda…. She was simply diagnosed as being in a ‘hyper-metabolic state’ (I kid you not – and by a well respected Endocrinologist no less).
Working with her over the last few months - What can I say except for the fact that she is a ‘thrifty metabolism dieter’s worst nightmare’ (or best dream – whichever way you want to look at it). The amount of calories we have her eating is insane! And in the absence of all other pathology we were left wondering as to ‘why’ her body has done this.
So I am looking at the ‘truth’ behind this ‘idiopathic hyper-metabolism’ claim (and I use the word idiopathic here as there are certain disease/ pathological states which precipitate hypermetabolism) and what I could do to:
a. Stop hers
b. Harness its powers (to a lesser extent) for ‘good’ within the fitness community who want to get shredded…!
Last on the cards in relation to research is that I am also currently in discussions with a few people about returning to the Garvan for further involvement in some interesting projects that were getting started last time I was there. And (hopefully) in the process of starting a Masters of Nutrition via research.
In relation to my business as a whole: I am, as mentioned, in the process of getting a complete ‘overhaul’ for my website etc. I am also in the process of setting up a more global ‘network of change’…. Incorporating that concept of ‘total fitness’ I have – mental, physical, social, emotional. Getting people passionate again. Learning to reengage, reconnect and rediscover…. It is a something I have been working on with a few clients from different locations around the world and it is still in the ‘embryological states’ of things…. But as I have said a few other times during the last few pages -- all things must start somewhere…
Two things you hate about the fitness industry
1. The mindless belief and propagation (and unquestioning belief) of pseudoscience that seems to seep into every aspect of the fitness community
2. The fact that everyone can become ‘an expert’ without much knowledge at all… (revisiting the inexperienced PT teaching complex Olympic lifts to unfit, uncoordinated, inflexible and untrained clients)
3. And three (I know you said two)… ‘A one size fits all’ approaches to people in terms of recommending specifics of diet & training ( fitness/ athletics etc)
Two things you love about the fitness industry
1. The potential for change…
2. The potential for discovery and experimentation…
About Emma Leigh
I am, by no means, a ‘guru’, but I do have a passion for this area.
And I want to talk with, learn from, and help as many as possible who have a desire or interest in the same.
If anyone wants to see in more detail what services I have to offer… (Or - Hey…. If anyone has any up and coming research or projects they wouldn’t mind my involvement in (long shot – but throwing it out there)) please feel free to contact me.
My website under construction (will update with address ASAP) but in the meantime I can be contacted via bb.com [here à Emma-Leigh ]
Or by email [ -email- ] or [ -email- ]
Thanking you much for the interview Jamie, and I hope we can talk again soon.
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